โรงรถ

[numken]

สวัสดีครับคุณ maverick ขอความเห็นเกี่ยวกับ mojo หน่อยครับ ผมอยู่ฝั่งยุโรป ขี่ sc Heckler ตัวเก่าอยู่
เวลาแบกมันหนักครับ อยากหาเฟรมที่เบากว่าเดิม ขี่ขึ้นดี ขี่ลงสนุก mojo กับ 5.5 หรือ turner ดีครับ

[oam]

สวัสดีครับคุณ maverick ขอความเห็นเกี่ยวกับ mojo หน่อยครับ ผมอยู่ฝั่งยุโรป ขี่ sc Heckler ตัวเก่าอยู่
เวลาแบกมันหนักครับ อยากหาเฟรมที่เบากว่าเดิม ขี่ขึ้นดี ขี่ลงสนุก mojo กับ 5.5 หรือ turner ดีครับ

ขอแจมครับ พอดีผมเพิ่งได้ turner 5 spot มา ผมว่าตัวนี้ขี่สนุกมากครับ ตอนปั่นนี่ขนาดยุบ5.5 ผมยังไม่ค่อยรู้สึกว่ามันบ๊อบเลยครับ
เดี๋ยวขอเวลาสักพัก แล้วจะลองมารีวิวให้อ่านครับ

[JoeSF]

สวัสดีครับคุณ maverick ขอความเห็นเกี่ยวกับ mojo หน่อยครับ ผมอยู่ฝั่งยุโรป ขี่ sc Heckler ตัวเก่าอยู่
เวลาแบกมันหนักครับ อยากหาเฟรมที่เบากว่าเดิม ขี่ขึ้นดี ขี่ลงสนุก mojo กับ 5.5 หรือ turner ดีครับ

You'll completely forget your SC Heckler once you get either a Mojo HD or Nomad Carbon.

[maverick]

I like the mojo and Scott Nicole's magic geometry. The BB is low enough to rail any corner and high enough to clear nasty sections. I've ridden the gen 2 Heckler and I love the ride. It's on a heavy duty side but certainly get the job done. I've ridden both 26er and 650b version of the Heckler.

Mojo HD is a bike to get, only a few ounces heavier than the standard mojo but can handle crazier situation. I've got the white one on order now. I also like the Turner 5spot. Again it's a spot on geometry, Turner legendary built, plush ride bottomless feel, sprint inspired machine. I envy OAM's bike. Beautifully put together.

My Vote would be the choice between the DW's line up
Mojo SL
Mojo
Mojo HD

Turner 5Spot
Pivot Mach5
All would put big smile on your face.
Cheers

[numken]

ขอบคุณทั้ง3ท่านครับ

[oam]

It seem like you have had ellsworth moment for a while. How do you like it krub?
For AM bike, is the ICT better than others? As I have 4 and 5.5 inches travel bikes, I would like to know how 6 inch travel bike perform on the trails.

Thank you krub.

[cht]

บางทีถ้าผมมีตังค์และมีโอกาสคงต้องลอง DW Link ภาค Ibis หน่อยครับ อยากลอง Hi Definition หน่อยว่าชัดเจนระดับ 1080P หรือเปล่า

[maverick]

It seem like you have had ellsworth moment for a while. How do you like it krub?
For AM bike, is the ICT better than others? As I have 4 and 5.5 inches travel bikes, I would like to know how 6 inch travel bike perform on the trails.

Thank you krub.

The Moment is a different bike than Mojo, although with only 1/2" separate the two but the geometry, and suspension design dictate the ride.

First is the weight, a light weight Moment is 28 lbs, a light weight Mojo is 23. I tried both but settle for the optimum 30lbs Moment and 26lbs Mojo. A 28 lbs Mojo still pedal faster than a 28 lbs Moment. The 2 bikes seems to have 2 completely different personality. Moment goad you all the time to hit harder, rougher line.

Moment is not the fastest climber out there but it makes up for pure traction on technical climbs. It offers so much rear wheel traction that you just love, either up or down the hill. I've come to love the low BB of the Mojo, the geometry seems spot on for and all around trail riding. Moment is more for heavier duty AM ride.

Both bike offer such quality travels. To give you an idea of how it ride, if you split the ride between the two the ride would be similar to a DW 5Spot you are familiar with,except the Moment still doesn't climb as fast as the 5spot.


บางทีถ้าผมมีตังค์และมีโอกาสคงต้องลอง DW Link ภาค Ibis หน่อยครับ อยากลอง Hi Definition หน่อยว่าชัดเจนระดับ 1080P หรือเปล่า

@cht
You'll love it. I absolutely did!

[cht]

@cht
You'll love it. I absolutely did!

Wow !!!! great biking and great shot, thank you. I've plan for next bike (hopefully) switch to DW-Link bike and I' m fall in love with carbon frame .

Uh because I want to know, what are different about 4bar-Link and DW-Link because I have ICT and FSR bike and feeling quite similar but not the same.

[DarkDiy]

โหย

[maverick]

@cht
You'll love it. I absolutely did!

Wow !!!! great biking and great shot, thank you. I've plan for next bike (hopefully) switch to DW-Link bike and I' m fall in love with carbon frame .

Uh because I want to know, what are different about 4bar-Link and DW-Link because I have ICT and FSR bike and feeling quite similar but not the same.

Thanks cht, Sorry I can't type Thai, I can read but my laptop does not have Thai Keyboard.

I think that you hit the nail on the head, they are similar but not the same. Most designs have their desirable trade, ICT is essentially a refine 4-bar, licensed under Ellsworth. FSR are Spech. These bike can climb with or w/o Propedal, but with propedal you can eliminate the rear shock wallowing(moving back and forth, creating unwanted bob). The ICT react well with bumps but suffers the excessive movement of the rear shock while riding through rolling singletrack. It requires the help of Propedaling to keep the movement in check. This is especially true with Spech bikes, hence Brain-fade shock design. I'm not a big fan of suspension lag.

FSR link design has a pivot at the end of the chainstay. The rear axle pivots with the seat stay, it keeps the chain length constant throughout the shock stroke. The benefit is that it reduces amount of chain and brake feedback. However, it encourage the rear suspension bob and require propedal damping to keep in check.

The benefit of this trade I found is on the technical climb, where it offers the rear wheel traction especially when you have a longer bike like the Moment. When you have short travel 3-4" you have to choose to either be soft or firm, but with longer travel 5-6" you can have both as there more range to work with. You can achieve both a supple beginning and a smooth transition to bottomless bottom. The more travel you have the easier it is to adjust for everything. It's hard to tune the short travel bikes to make them plush then ramp up. There's not enough room there. That's why I went with the Moment, I can have both without compromised.

DW link bike design is "anti-squat" when pedal forward it creates a zone of movement to keep the suspension from compressing as the rider rock backward. The shock still move but the action has already been accounted for, it does not contribute to bobbing, while offer plushness with out bob, it has slight pedal feedback,and with the shock rate that varies through out the stroke, it takes a careful placement of the shock and ratio to bring out the best of the bike personality.

Another benefit of the DWL bike is the bottom bracket does not change when accelerate, so it can be design with slacker head angle and lower bottom bracket height, both trades contribute to a lot of fun on the trail as you can rail the corner and descend with a lot of confidence.

cht, if you want to get the DWL design bikes it's a great idea. Ibis, Turner, and Pivot are great bike choose the 5.5" travel so you can really have fun with it. As for staying with the 4-bar/ICT/FSR get the longer travel like the 6" Moment, sure it's a bit heavier bike but you just can't stop smiling on the descend

If this has not confused you enough next year Dave Weagle(DW) would offer his other design the concentric BB, like the ABT of Trek(rumor has it that Trek stole the idea from DW) It's like a 4-bar single pivot. It's very flexible design more simple than DWL, and has a lot of good trades climbing and descending. Several companies are now on the prototyping stage, including Seven. Seven offers the custom travel as well, they can make them anywhere from 3"-8" travel. How cool is that.

Hope I've answer your questions.

[oam]

P' cht you'd better wait the split pivot.

[cht]

Thanks cht, Sorry I can't type Thai, I can read but my laptop does not have Thai Keyboard.

I think that you hit the nail on the head, they are similar but not the same. Most designs have their desirable trade, ICT is essentially a refine 4-bar, licensed under Ellsworth. FSR are Spech. These bike can climb with or w/o Propedal, but with propedal you can eliminate the rear shock wallowing(moving back and forth, creating unwanted bob). The ICT react well with bumps but suffers the excessive movement of the rear shock while riding through rolling singletrack. It requires the help of Propedaling to keep the movement in check. This is especially true with Spech bikes, hence Brain-fade shock design. I'm not a big fan of suspension lag.

FSR link design has a pivot at the end of the chainstay. The rear axle pivots with the seat stay, it keeps the chain length constant throughout the shock stroke. The benefit is that it reduces amount of chain and brake feedback. However, it encourage the rear suspension bob and require propedal damping to keep in check.

The benefit of this trade I found is on the technical climb, where it offers the rear wheel traction especially when you have a longer bike like the Moment. When you have short travel 3-4" you have to choose to either be soft or firm, but with longer travel 5-6" you can have both as there more range to work with. You can achieve both a supple beginning and a smooth transition to bottomless bottom. The more travel you have the easier it is to adjust for everything. It's hard to tune the short travel bikes to make them plush then ramp up. There's not enough room there. That's why I went with the Moment, I can have both without compromised.

DW link bike design is "anti-squat" when pedal forward it creates a zone of movement to keep the suspension from compressing as the rider rock backward. The shock still move but the action has already been accounted for, it does not contribute to bobbing, while offer plushness with out bob, it has slight pedal feedback,and with the shock rate that varies through out the stroke, it takes a careful placement of the shock and ratio to bring out the best of the bike personality.

Another benefit of the DWL bike is the bottom bracket does not change when accelerate, so it can be design with slacker head angle and lower bottom bracket height, both trades contribute to a lot of fun on the trail as you can rail the corner and descend with a lot of confidence.

cht, if you want to get the DWL design bikes it's a great idea. Ibis, Turner, and Pivot are great bike choose the 5.5" travel so you can really have fun with it. As for staying with the 4-bar/ICT/FSR get the longer travel like the 6" Moment, sure it's a bit heavier bike but you just can't stop smiling on the descend

If this has not confused you enough next year Dave Weagle(DW) would offer his other design the concentric BB, like the ABT of Trek(rumor has it that Trek stole the idea from DW) It's like a 4-bar single pivot. It's very flexible design more simple than DWL, and has a lot of good trades climbing and descending. Several companies are now on the prototyping stage, including Seven. Seven offers the custom travel as well, they can make them anywhere from 3"-8" travel. How cool is that.

Hope I've answer your questions.

โอ้ ขอบคุณครับได้ความรู้มากมาย สงสัยต้องรอ Split Pivot เหมือนที่คุณ Maverick และออมบอก แต่คงไม่ใช่ Seven Cycle แน่ๆ ส่วน Spooky cycle ก็ไม่เคยเห็นมาก่อน

แต่ผมก็ยังงงกับ 4bar single pivot อยู่ครับ

SPLIT-PIVOT's [concentric dropout pivot] is the heart of this new design. The [concentric dropout pivot] and Dave Weagle's engineering allow for performance features that no single pivot can duplicate.

SPLIT-PIVOT separates acceleration forces from braking forces in the suspension The system reduces excess suspension compression due to acceleration forces, and at the same time reduces excess compression due to braking forces.

Braking neutrality can be tuned independently of acceleration characteristics, and leverage rate curves can be tuned to meet the needs of the application.

SPLIT-PIVOT can be engineered to build lightweight frame structures without resorting to exotic materials or tube shapes.

Featuring 12mm thru axle, QR 12mm axle, or 10mm vertical QR possibilities, plenty of stock wheels fit the design.

[maverick]

As for the design, Dave said earlier when he introduced split-pivot that it's not better than DW link but different. This time however may be difference.

Dave went to Trek and show them the design, Trek look at it and later said no they'd pass. A very short time later, before Dave's patent was finalized. Trek introduced ABT, that pissed Dave off quite a bit. So this time he may tweak the design to the max to teach Trek a thing or two. Still don't know if he'd go for ISCG tab mounting that optimized for Hammerschmidt. He told me in the forum that he believed that it's not optimized to run a small ring size. He's a purist, so that's the position he's taking.

I've ridden the Firebird with the Hammerschmidt and only on some rolling singletrack I feel that the rear firmed up a bit. Most bike design optimized for middle ring but a few like Monolink design is not effected at all. I converted my Seven Duo to H'schmidt and it works great very connected and I can carry a lot of momentum to technical sections. It's lightening fast shifting, under full load, just plain priceless. Worth the extra 2 lbs it added. I can climb and descend faster.

As for the Spit-Pivot, I spoke to Seven already. As soon as they finish testing their prototype, we'll see. I'm quite sure it would be a good system if not Seven would not licensed it.

[oam]

it would be a good system if not Seven would not licensed it.

Totally agreed.